Thursday, June 30

Welp -- My thoughts on God.

Well, it's 1:00, so much for FedEx efficiency.. My Mac is not here yet.

Okay, well in response to the religious discussion we've been having on there, let me give me give my revamped conclusions.

1. I am not very religious

--> I just want to have an understanding.
2. I do not believe in a "religion" (ex. Baptist, Catholic, Muslim, Hindu)

--> The Church is in our hearts. Not in a "steepled" facility. Church is where you are.
4. God never said he was a "Christian"
--> Christian is a word we invented as Humans. God just is.
5. God didn't say he was anything.
--> God said that we are God. We are all a part of Him, as He is a part of Us.
6. God said "I am God."
--> They (God) don't need to. We (humans) know this. Even though we do not believe it.
7. If the Ten Commandments are law. There should be more.
--> Humans made up laws to try and tell others what to do. The Truth is, is that God already knows what you are going to do. He knew a billion years ago. The reality of this life is that you have to understand WHY.
8. God should appoint some dude on Earth as his representative, that dude should be over all Governments and Courts, and when a decision gets that high, that dude should turn around and ask God, hey God, whatcha think... and then therefore.. it is.
--> He did. All of us. All of us are his represenatives. Free Choice allows us to follow Him or not.
9. The Bible is the Bible. It's black and white. It's not open for interpretation, it's law, follow it. Although I am sure all of us would love to sit down and talk to God and ask him what he meant by certain things.
10. God didn't write the Bible. Men did. God inspired it.

--> The Bible is ours. It's Human. Written by Humans. God told them what to write, but they filtered it. No movie or book or other human explanation of the Divine is literally true. Not even the Bible. We all know this. The authors of the Bible wrote it through their personal filters.

1. If Jesus is God's son, how are Jesus, God, and they Holy Spirit, one person? Isn't that physically impossible? And when Jesus died, he said "Father, into your hands I commend my spirit". So Jesus Died. Gave his spirit to God, who again, is a different person. But I thought they were one?
--> To refer to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as three seperate entities is wrong. Jesus was a human incarnation of the Energy that which is is God. God is Energy (or an Energy) the "Holy Spirit" is the essence of that Energy.

2. Who is the Pope?
--> A human. A Human who has dedicated his whole being to serving God. Only the rest of us should be so lucky. But he's isn't special. All of us have the same communication with God that he does. We are God, God is Us.
3. Who is right?
--> God.
4. Should we stop interpreting the Bible and start following it?
--> You should find meaning in the Bible, and follow God.
5. How does the Bible fit into modern society? For example, Abortion.. Bible says it's wrong... Okay... Well Someone rapes your 11 year old daughter, and she becomes pregnant.. is it wrong then? If you say, "Well the Rape should have never taken place in the first place" Good point. I agree.. But it happened... what now?
--> There is no death. The energy just moves. Maybe it will return in another physical form later. Life never end. It never begins. You can't kill anything or anyone, the Energy just moves. Nothing happens against the will of God. Life, and all that is occurring, is an expression of God's will--read that, your will--made manifest. Human will is God's will. There is only one of us. God and Humans. Life is God's will, expressed perfectly. Humans can't decide to end a life. They can't. Life doesn't die.

12 comments:

Steve G. said...

Darn! The above comment was from me, shouldn't have been shown as anonymous.

Steve G.

P.S.
Pilgrim (from Confessions of a Pilgrim), I have tried many times over the past 2 days to post comments on your blog but with now success. The comments show up only for myself when I am 'logged in', but the counter doesn't move and if I clear out my cookies, I can't see (and suspect no one else can) the comments I've posted. I've tried several different solutions and even went to wordpress' website, but I am having no luck. Am I doing somthing wrong?

Joel Esler said...

The problem is that you say this without defining what it means to follow him. People have throughout history made that mean whatever they want.

How do you define what it means to follow him?

--> I think it is without definition. We do not follow. Since God lives with us, in us, and we are one with God, we don't follow. Since his will is ours, and ours is his, following is not necessary. We just are


I think you have a bit of a contradiction here. On one hand you are saying it is black and white, but on the other it’s tainted. The two are mutually exclusive. If it's tainted by the human filters it was written through then how can it be trusted at all? Why put any more trust in it than the Koran? What does it mean to you that God inspired it? Could you clarify?

Can anyone on Earth possibly have the ability in any way, shape, or form explain the Divine on paper? Can the Divine be explained? No. God spoke to them, showed them, told them what to write. But a human hand held the pen.


You have redefined the Trinity for yourself here because you are struggling to understand the mystery. In addition, the orthodox definition of the Trinity does not view three ‘entities’, but rather as three persons or aspects of one entity (God). The sun has three aspects: heat, light, and mass, yet it is one entity. Think of the Trinity in this way if it helps.
Other than personal opinion, on what basis do you understand God as energy?

Energy is again, a human word, God is something. Something that can never be defined. I understand how all three are one. They are parts of something that "exists". As I said, we are one with God, he is one with us.


>>3. Who is right?
>>God.

OK, now how we determine what the mind of God is on a particular issue?

--> No. We define the mind of God by acts. God is within us, he defines, and defined us, and he defines our actions. We don't have to understand what he wants us to do, we're already doing it.

Overall, you seem to have some relativistic tendency (possibly unintentional). The problem with relativism is that it’s a contradiction which is self defeating. Let me flesh this out by asking you a straightforward question.
Do you believe that there is such a thing as right and wrong?

--> Again, referring to what I just said. I think "wrong" was invented by Man. Specifically by the Male to create fear and to have control. God knows no wrong. He only knows actions. there is no division between left and right, right and wrong, past and future. There is just... placement, acts, and time. I think that everything is "right"... however, being judged by those acts as "Holy" is a different story. God wouldn't have wanted us to do "wrong", he wouldn't have invented it. Why would he? Why would he invent the "Tree of Knowledge", if he already knew that was going to be "Human's downfall" and the cause of women's suffering, why would he have put it there. God wouldn't do that. He wouldn't cause us to be "wrong". He is still with us, that is how we know. Everything that has transpired has done so according to [his] desire (Star Wars quote)...

steve g. said...

>>I think it is without definition. We do not follow. Since God lives with us, in us, and we are one with God, we don't follow. Since his will is ours, and ours is his, following is not necessary. We just are
---
And the moral choices we make have no meaning? Does it matter at all what one does?

>>Can anyone on Earth possibly have the ability in any way, shape, or form explain the Divine on paper?
----
Fully, of course not. But partial explanation is not the same as no explanation. And an incomplete explanation is not the same as a lie. The writers could certainly be limited in what they are able to convey, but that doesn't mean what they convey is 'wrong', just incomplete.

>>.Can the Divine be explained?
-----------
Yes. The Divine is fully and completely revealed in Jesus Christ. His life and actions explain to us all we need to know. They explain that we have two fundamental choices before us...

to live selfishly and put ourselves above all else.

OR

to live selflessly and put others before ourselves.

...Jesus, the omnipotent, all powerful God of the universe could have weilded power and made us slaves. Yet, what he did was in a sense relinquish his 'status' and turn himself over to us to show us what true, ulimate self-giving love is. He came to show that this is what we are meant to be...Persons who have such an awesome capacity to give that they can choose to give even life for another.

And the end result? That in giving ourselves away in love, we gain something greater. New life, resurrection, love beyond all knowing is gained. A mother in childbirth knows this. She suffers and bleeds, and gives her very flesh to bring forth a baby. And in giving part of herself away, what does she gain? Love, life, family, and a new person who is capable of all of these things in return. God is love, selfless unbridled love.

>>>No. God spoke to them, showed them, told them what to write. But a human hand held the pen.
-----
While they held the pen, could he not have also protected them from 'tainting' the work as you'd have it? The mother teaches her child to write, sometimes by actually holding the pen with him. And in doing so, the letters come out truer than if the child did it himself. Could God not have done the same for his weak and imperfect children?

>>No. We define the mind of God by acts. God is within us, he defines, and defined us, and he defines our actions. We don't have to understand what he wants us to do, we're already doing it.
----
Action comes from our mind and will. We do what we beleive and think. The two are inseparable.

Is the child molester doing what God wants?

....I'll respond to your last paragraph separately.

Steve G. said...

Again, referring to what I just said. I think "wrong" was invented by Man. Specifically by the Male to create fear and to have control. God knows no wrong. He only knows actions. there is no division between left and right, right and wrong, past and future. There is just... placement, acts, and time. I think that everything is "right"... however, being judged by those acts as "Holy" is a different story.
-------
If there is no right or wrong, is it OK then to....

molest a child?
murder someone?
rape someone?

...These are all OK with you?


God wouldn't have wanted us to do "wrong", he wouldn't have invented it.
--------
I want to recommend (again) Mere Christianity here. C.S. Lewis answers all of this so well that I can not even begin to do his equal. I'll only make a few points here.

First, you have a skewed understanding of what evil/wrong is. Evil/wrong is not a thing (and certainly not a thing God 'invented'). Evil/wrong is the perversion of good/right in the way that darkness is not a thing, but rather the absence of light. Murder (evil) cannot exist without life (good), abortion (evil) cannot exist without conception (good), lying (evil) can not exist without truth (good). Now flip this around and good CAN exist without evil. Life, conception, and truth can all exists in the absence of their perversions. You give far to much credit to evil to put it on par with good.


Why would he? Why would he invent the "Tree of Knowledge", if he already knew that was going to be "Human's downfall" and the cause of women's suffering, why would he have put it there. God wouldn't do that. He wouldn't cause us to be "wrong".
-----
God HAD to create the possibilty of our choosing against him. Because he desired to love us and let us share in his love, the free choice to do so must necessarily exist. If we have no free will, we are but mere automatons and no true love can be exchanged. Our existence becomes meaningless. God doesn't cause us to be wrong/evil, but we must have the possibility of choosing to go wrong (by perverting good) if we are to be free and not slaves.

Anonymous said...

>>8. God should appoint some dude …>>He did. All of us. All of us are his represenatives. Free Choice allows us to follow Him or not.The problem is that you say this without defining what it means to follow him. People have throughout history made that mean whatever they want.How do you define what it means to follow him?>>The Bible is ours. It's Human. Written by Humans. God told them what to write, but they filtered it. No movie or book or other human explanation of the Divine is literally true. Not even the Bible. We all know this. The authors of the Bible wrote it through their personal filters.>>10. God didn't write the Bible. Men did. God inspired it.I think you have a bit of a contradiction here. On one hand you are saying it is black and white, but on the other it’s tainted. The two are mutually exclusive. If it's tainted by the human filters it was written through then how can it be trusted at all? Why put any more trust in it than the Koran? What does it mean to you that God inspired it? Could you clarify?>>To refer to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as three seperate entities is wrong. Jesus was a human incarnation of the Energy that which is is God. God is Energy (or an Energy) the "Holy Spirit" is the essence of that Energy.You have redefined the Trinity for yourself here because you are struggling to understand the mystery. In addition, the orthodox definition of the Trinity does not view three ‘entities’, but rather as three persons or aspects of one entity (God). The sun has three aspects: heat, light, and mass, yet it is one entity. Think of the Trinity in this way if it helps.Other than personal opinion, on what basis do you understand God as energy?>>3. Who is right? >>God.OK, now how we determine what the mind of God is on a particular issue?Overall, you seem to have some relativistic tendency (possibly unintentional). The problem with relativism is that it’s a contradiction which is self defeating. Let me flesh this out by asking you a straightforward question.Do you believe that there is such a thing as right and wrong?

Steve G. said...

Darn! The above comment was from me, shouldn't have been shown as anonymous.Steve G.P.S.Pilgrim (from Confessions of a Pilgrim), I have tried many times over the past 2 days to post comments on your blog but with now success. The comments show up only for myself when I am 'logged in', but the counter doesn't move and if I clear out my cookies, I can't see (and suspect no one else can) the comments I've posted. I've tried several different solutions and even went to wordpress' website, but I am having no luck. Am I doing somthing wrong?

Steve G. said...

Darn! The above comment was from me, shouldn't have been shown as anonymous.Steve G.P.S.Pilgrim (from Confessions of a Pilgrim), I have tried many times over the past 2 days to post comments on your blog but with now success. The comments show up only for myself when I am 'logged in', but the counter doesn't move and if I clear out my cookies, I can't see (and suspect no one else can) the comments I've posted. I've tried several different solutions and even went to wordpress' website, but I am having no luck. Am I doing somthing wrong?

Joel Esler said...

The problem is that you say this without defining what it means to follow him. People have throughout history made that mean whatever they want.How do you define what it means to follow him?--> I think it is without definition. We do not follow. Since God lives with us, in us, and we are one with God, we don't follow. Since his will is ours, and ours is his, following is not necessary. We just areI think you have a bit of a contradiction here. On one hand you are saying it is black and white, but on the other it’s tainted. The two are mutually exclusive. If it's tainted by the human filters it was written through then how can it be trusted at all? Why put any more trust in it than the Koran? What does it mean to you that God inspired it? Could you clarify?Can anyone on Earth possibly have the ability in any way, shape, or form explain the Divine on paper? Can the Divine be explained? No. God spoke to them, showed them, told them what to write. But a human hand held the pen.You have redefined the Trinity for yourself here because you are struggling to understand the mystery. In addition, the orthodox definition of the Trinity does not view three ‘entities’, but rather as three persons or aspects of one entity (God). The sun has three aspects: heat, light, and mass, yet it is one entity. Think of the Trinity in this way if it helps.Other than personal opinion, on what basis do you understand God as energy?Energy is again, a human word, God is something. Something that can never be defined. I understand how all three are one. They are parts of something that "exists". As I said, we are one with God, he is one with us.>>3. Who is right?>>God.OK, now how we determine what the mind of God is on a particular issue? --> No. We define the mind of God by acts. God is within us, he defines, and defined us, and he defines our actions. We don't have to understand what he wants us to do, we're already doing it.Overall, you seem to have some relativistic tendency (possibly unintentional). The problem with relativism is that it’s a contradiction which is self defeating. Let me flesh this out by asking you a straightforward question.Do you believe that there is such a thing as right and wrong?--> Again, referring to what I just said. I think "wrong" was invented by Man. Specifically by the Male to create fear and to have control. God knows no wrong. He only knows actions. there is no division between left and right, right and wrong, past and future. There is just... placement, acts, and time. I think that everything is "right"... however, being judged by those acts as "Holy" is a different story. God wouldn't have wanted us to do "wrong", he wouldn't have invented it. Why would he? Why would he invent the "Tree of Knowledge", if he already knew that was going to be "Human's downfall" and the cause of women's suffering, why would he have put it there. God wouldn't do that. He wouldn't cause us to be "wrong". He is still with us, that is how we know. Everything that has transpired has done so according to [his] desire (Star Wars quote)...

steve g. said...

>>I think it is without definition. We do not follow. Since God lives with us, in us, and we are one with God, we don't follow. Since his will is ours, and ours is his, following is not necessary. We just are---And the moral choices we make have no meaning? Does it matter at all what one does?>>Can anyone on Earth possibly have the ability in any way, shape, or form explain the Divine on paper?----Fully, of course not. But partial explanation is not the same as no explanation. And an incomplete explanation is not the same as a lie. The writers could certainly be limited in what they are able to convey, but that doesn't mean what they convey is 'wrong', just incomplete.>>.Can the Divine be explained?-----------Yes. The Divine is fully and completely revealed in Jesus Christ. His life and actions explain to us all we need to know. They explain that we have two fundamental choices before us...to live selfishly and put ourselves above all else.ORto live selflessly and put others before ourselves....Jesus, the omnipotent, all powerful God of the universe could have weilded power and made us slaves. Yet, what he did was in a sense relinquish his 'status' and turn himself over to us to show us what true, ulimate self-giving love is. He came to show that this is what we are meant to be...Persons who have such an awesome capacity to give that they can choose to give even life for another. And the end result? That in giving ourselves away in love, we gain something greater. New life, resurrection, love beyond all knowing is gained. A mother in childbirth knows this. She suffers and bleeds, and gives her very flesh to bring forth a baby. And in giving part of herself away, what does she gain? Love, life, family, and a new person who is capable of all of these things in return. God is love, selfless unbridled love. >>>No. God spoke to them, showed them, told them what to write. But a human hand held the pen.-----While they held the pen, could he not have also protected them from 'tainting' the work as you'd have it? The mother teaches her child to write, sometimes by actually holding the pen with him. And in doing so, the letters come out truer than if the child did it himself. Could God not have done the same for his weak and imperfect children?>>No. We define the mind of God by acts. God is within us, he defines, and defined us, and he defines our actions. We don't have to understand what he wants us to do, we're already doing it.----Action comes from our mind and will. We do what we beleive and think. The two are inseparable.Is the child molester doing what God wants?....I'll respond to your last paragraph separately.

steve g. said...

>>I think it is without definition. We do not follow. Since God lives with us, in us, and we are one with God, we don't follow. Since his will is ours, and ours is his, following is not necessary. We just are---And the moral choices we make have no meaning? Does it matter at all what one does?>>Can anyone on Earth possibly have the ability in any way, shape, or form explain the Divine on paper?----Fully, of course not. But partial explanation is not the same as no explanation. And an incomplete explanation is not the same as a lie. The writers could certainly be limited in what they are able to convey, but that doesn't mean what they convey is 'wrong', just incomplete.>>.Can the Divine be explained?-----------Yes. The Divine is fully and completely revealed in Jesus Christ. His life and actions explain to us all we need to know. They explain that we have two fundamental choices before us...to live selfishly and put ourselves above all else.ORto live selflessly and put others before ourselves....Jesus, the omnipotent, all powerful God of the universe could have weilded power and made us slaves. Yet, what he did was in a sense relinquish his 'status' and turn himself over to us to show us what true, ulimate self-giving love is. He came to show that this is what we are meant to be...Persons who have such an awesome capacity to give that they can choose to give even life for another. And the end result? That in giving ourselves away in love, we gain something greater. New life, resurrection, love beyond all knowing is gained. A mother in childbirth knows this. She suffers and bleeds, and gives her very flesh to bring forth a baby. And in giving part of herself away, what does she gain? Love, life, family, and a new person who is capable of all of these things in return. God is love, selfless unbridled love. >>>No. God spoke to them, showed them, told them what to write. But a human hand held the pen.-----While they held the pen, could he not have also protected them from 'tainting' the work as you'd have it? The mother teaches her child to write, sometimes by actually holding the pen with him. And in doing so, the letters come out truer than if the child did it himself. Could God not have done the same for his weak and imperfect children?>>No. We define the mind of God by acts. God is within us, he defines, and defined us, and he defines our actions. We don't have to understand what he wants us to do, we're already doing it.----Action comes from our mind and will. We do what we beleive and think. The two are inseparable.Is the child molester doing what God wants?....I'll respond to your last paragraph separately.

Steve G. said...

Again, referring to what I just said. I think "wrong" was invented by Man. Specifically by the Male to create fear and to have control. God knows no wrong. He only knows actions. there is no division between left and right, right and wrong, past and future. There is just... placement, acts, and time. I think that everything is "right"... however, being judged by those acts as "Holy" is a different story.-------If there is no right or wrong, is it OK then to....molest a child?murder someone?rape someone?...These are all OK with you?God wouldn't have wanted us to do "wrong", he wouldn't have invented it.--------I want to recommend (again) Mere Christianity here. C.S. Lewis answers all of this so well that I can not even begin to do his equal. I'll only make a few points here. First, you have a skewed understanding of what evil/wrong is. Evil/wrong is not a thing (and certainly not a thing God 'invented'). Evil/wrong is the perversion of good/right in the way that darkness is not a thing, but rather the absence of light. Murder (evil) cannot exist without life (good), abortion (evil) cannot exist without conception (good), lying (evil) can not exist without truth (good). Now flip this around and good CAN exist without evil. Life, conception, and truth can all exists in the absence of their perversions. You give far to much credit to evil to put it on par with good.Why would he? Why would he invent the "Tree of Knowledge", if he already knew that was going to be "Human's downfall" and the cause of women's suffering, why would he have put it there. God wouldn't do that. He wouldn't cause us to be "wrong".-----God HAD to create the possibilty of our choosing against him. Because he desired to love us and let us share in his love, the free choice to do so must necessarily exist. If we have no free will, we are but mere automatons and no true love can be exchanged. Our existence becomes meaningless. God doesn't cause us to be wrong/evil, but we must have the possibility of choosing to go wrong (by perverting good) if we are to be free and not slaves.

Steve G. said...

Again, referring to what I just said. I think "wrong" was invented by Man. Specifically by the Male to create fear and to have control. God knows no wrong. He only knows actions. there is no division between left and right, right and wrong, past and future. There is just... placement, acts, and time. I think that everything is "right"... however, being judged by those acts as "Holy" is a different story.-------If there is no right or wrong, is it OK then to....molest a child?murder someone?rape someone?...These are all OK with you?God wouldn't have wanted us to do "wrong", he wouldn't have invented it.--------I want to recommend (again) Mere Christianity here. C.S. Lewis answers all of this so well that I can not even begin to do his equal. I'll only make a few points here. First, you have a skewed understanding of what evil/wrong is. Evil/wrong is not a thing (and certainly not a thing God 'invented'). Evil/wrong is the perversion of good/right in the way that darkness is not a thing, but rather the absence of light. Murder (evil) cannot exist without life (good), abortion (evil) cannot exist without conception (good), lying (evil) can not exist without truth (good). Now flip this around and good CAN exist without evil. Life, conception, and truth can all exists in the absence of their perversions. You give far to much credit to evil to put it on par with good.Why would he? Why would he invent the "Tree of Knowledge", if he already knew that was going to be "Human's downfall" and the cause of women's suffering, why would he have put it there. God wouldn't do that. He wouldn't cause us to be "wrong".-----God HAD to create the possibilty of our choosing against him. Because he desired to love us and let us share in his love, the free choice to do so must necessarily exist. If we have no free will, we are but mere automatons and no true love can be exchanged. Our existence becomes meaningless. God doesn't cause us to be wrong/evil, but we must have the possibility of choosing to go wrong (by perverting good) if we are to be free and not slaves.